Madeleine: Hi, Sarah! Thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited to have you as a guest because I have been such a fan of Duct Tape Marketing for a long time.
I’ve listened to a lot of podcast episodes and I’ve heard a lot about your CEO. So it’s such a pleasure to be able to have you on The Succeeding Small Podcast.
Sara: Thank you for having me! I’m excited for the conversation. We were chatting a bit pre-show and I think we’re going to have a lot to talk about. So, thanks for having me on the show.
Madeleine: I cannot wait. So tell me, tell our audience a little bit about yourself and what kind of authority you have about the topic that we’re going to speak about today.
Sara: Yeah. So Duct Tape Marketing, we have been in business for about 30 years. And over those 30 years, we’ve always served the small business space.
That’s been our passion. I’ve been with the company for 14 years. Our CEO has written six or seven books at this point on different marketing topics. We do a lot of speaking, a lot of podcasting, a lot of events, and a lot of training—our whole focus is education. And when it comes to marketing, a lot of what we’re going to be focusing on is the topic of culture today for this episode.
In my role at Duct Tape Marketing these days as the COO—I’ve been very involved in scaling our team up over the years, hiring correctly, getting people in the right roles, communicating with them effectively, ensuring happiness, and focusing on retention. So, that’s some of the stuff that we’re going to talk about today.
And some of the things that I’m absolutely passionate about.
Madeleine: Oh, yes. I am so excited. I can’t wait, because this has been a very pertinent topic for me. I’ve been on very much of a leadership journey over the past few years. And a lot of our audience has been too, because we fall in love with our craft, we start a business, and then all of a sudden we have people that we need to be able to run our business and deliver our service, but we didn’t go get business degrees. We did not work in corporate and being able to lead and create a culture based on our own kind of just putting one foot in front of the other is a really big challenge.
So, how do you define culture? I’d love to work a little bit backwards here and start with what “good culture” looks like, how would you define that? What does that success picture look like when it’s working, when it’s well, and let’s go backwards and figure out what the steps are to be able to achieve that vision.
Sara: Yeah, absolutely. So when I’m thinking about company culture for us, like what I’m trying to focus on is a collaborative. Safe, supportive, happy environment for everyone to work in. I’ve heard from a few of my team members over the years saying like, I’m never leaving Duct Tape Marketing unless you kick me out.
And to me, that sums up a pretty solid culture is in place because they’re really passionate about not only the work that they’re doing for their clients, but also the people that they work with on a daily basis. And so, it’s those relationships that they’ve been able to build with other team members at Duct Tape Marketing is a core reason for why they want to stick around so long.
Madeleine: Yeah, I love that. I know there’s nothing better than hearing, “I love this company.” That’s just the most humbling thing that I could ever hear from my employees. It just makes my whole day whenever I hear that concept. So, I love starting at that point if you have happy people who feel safe, who are collaborating, who are building solid relationships and who stick around.
I mean, that’s what makes a big difference when you’re not experiencing turnover. You’re not constantly having to hire. You’ve got seasoned people like yourself who are in the company, they know it, they know how it functions. They know the dream, they know the vision, and they just seamlessly work in that.
Sara: Before we change the topics on that, I just want to add onto what you were saying there, because I completely agree, like the retention piece for employees is so important because hiring is expensive. The longer that people can stick around in your organization, the more value they ultimately are going to be able to provide.
And so, sometimes when you’re talking about culture to business owners, it sounds like. Busy work or something else you have to think about or something else you have to work towards, and maybe they’re not thinking it drives direct revenue, if that’s their goal that they’re focusing on as a business leader, but I would argue that it does drive direct revenue and profitability if you keep the right people in the right roles long term.
So, I just wanted to reemphasize that point you made. It is key.
Madeleine: Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, it can be, it is so expensive. Not just financially and from the bottom line, but it is mentally expensive and being able to strain all of the resources that you have within your company when you are constantly having to replace these people.
I hear a lot of people talk about the concept of, “I can’t find good people or people who have work ethic anymore. It’s a revolving door of people within my company.” And a lot of small businesses are very keen to be able to blame the generation and the way the world is working now.
But I would definitely argue that I think it starts with women. And if you can create a good, solid culture where people want to stay, then that is going to reap the benefits for you even longer. So, talk to me about that piece. What needs to exist within your company to be able to retain those employees and attract good talent, be able to keep them and not risk that, that very expensive drop to your bottom line when you’re constantly having to hire again.
Sara: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it starts with the business owner. I read something recently by Dan Martell. He’s an author in the space, and he said something along the lines of like: “personal growth will lead to business growth.” Something along those lines, that wasn’t exactly it, but as a business owner or leader, you need to really focus on your own personal growth, and becoming the best leader possible.
A lot of it starts there, but then beyond that, I think building a strong company culture starts as early on as hiring. You really have to be very clear on your mission, your vision, and your values for your company because then that will help you hire effectively. And so, whenever we’re posting job posts for our positions, when we’re hiring, we’re leading with here’s Duct Tape Marketing.
Here’s our mission. Here’s our values. Oh, and by the way, here’s more information about the job role, because we want to make sure that the people that are attracted are attracted to what we’re trying to do in the space, and what we value as a company in terms of treating each other fairly and also our clients the best possible way.
It all starts with understanding those things first, before you can even start thinking about hiring or building a team. Then also communicating those values on a regular basis, and hiring people based on those. Specifically, being a marketing agency, when I hire, I’m looking for the core values and people because a lot of marketing can be taught and we’re great teachers and educators to me.
If you’re not aligned from a value and mission standpoint, and you’re not a learner and driven and all of those things, then it’s maybe not a good fit. And so, it all starts there. It starts with hiring. And then after you’re hiring people, like that’s your first opportunity to blow someone away with a possible company culture.
And so how can you nail the onboarding process? It starts there. I’ve read something that employee happiness long term is really dependent on the first 30-days with a company and what happens in those first 30 days. So, how can you onboard them? How can you make them feel welcome? How can other people on your team make them feel welcome?
We use Slack for our communication tool within our team. And every time someone new is onboarded, they get added to Slack. And then my team, without asking, we’ll just jump in and say, “Hey, I see you’re new here. Welcome. Like, you’re going to love it at Duct Tape Marketing.”
This team and community is great. And that just makes them feel like they’re in the right spot. And I don’t have to ask the team to do that. They just do that because they received that same sort of welcome when they joined the team as well. And they know how it felt. And so it goes from like the vision and mission and values, to hiring correctly to onboarding correctly.
But then in terms of the ongoing company culture, it’s creating moments of collaboration every single week. Creating moments of sharing wins and celebrating wins every single week and moments of people feeling like they’re part of the team every single week. And so, it’s doing all of those things leading up to hiring, but then culture is an ongoing effort that you should be working towards and building community around on an ongoing basis as well.
Madeleine: I love that. Thank you for laying out that roadmap. I love being able to start at the beginning because being in alignment with those values can be the biggest difference in your company. And I speak from very painful experience. My turning point in learning this concept of being able to hire people who share your values was I made a mistake and I knew that I should not do this, and I did it anyway, and I definitely saw the repercussions. But some, one of my values at my company is curiosity. We have to be curious as marketers to be able to constantly learn and adapt to the things that happen. And if you don’t have that innate part of yourself that loves to learn, then you are going to fall behind and you’re going to be complacent.
And that does not jive well in the marketing space. So, I knew that. I knew that was a value of our company, but we were in a very sticky situation where I needed to hire quickly. And I, first of all, hate hiring out of that quick desperation, which has been another big learning block for me and growth in my company.
But I asked a person, one of my interview questions to be able to ask for the value of curiosity was what is next for you? What do you want to learn about next? What were you excited about, and the answer to this question was that they just finished getting their master’s degree so that they want to take a break for a little while.
And that was, it was just such a small thing. It was said in passing, we moved on very quickly, but I hired that person anyway. Because I was desperate and that misalignment of values meant that that person did not want to learn our systems and he did not want to learn the next thing about this particular role.
He didn’t stay up to date with the algorithm updates that we need with SEO. So, that one tiny question that I should have listened to my gut on, I ignored and hired anyway. And he was gone within a week. A month, like it was so fast and I wish I had listened to myself and stayed really strong within those values because I could have protected myself and my company whenever I invite somebody that doesn’t align with our values inside.
That’s also really, really dangerous.
Sara: Yeah. And it’s just such a great learning experience. Like I’ve been there, done that as well. And so I can relate, but as we were talking about, it’s so much harder then, because you’re already kind of stuck and you needed to hire someone fast and you did, and then that person didn’t work out and you probably introduced them to some clients and then you had to take a step back and start all over.
So you’re even further behind. So, I can absolutely relate and I’ve done that as well. That’s why I really try to hire as slowly as possible when you can. Obviously, there are certain times when you just need someone in the door, but taking the time to do your research and really listen and hire as slow as possible.
I think some great advice, if you’re listening to this and you’re diving into different AI tools, ChatGPT is one of my favorite tools for creating interview questions. I’m not creative in the sense of creating interview questions. Like I would probably just say, because one of our values is “always be learning” — “Tell me the last time you learned something.” But you’re able to put your values in ChatGPT and say, create a list of interview questions to test someone based on these values and you’ll get some really creative, kind of out of the box thinking types of questions based on your values that you can ask people to see if they’re aligned.
Madeleine: I love that. That is such a great tip. So, talk to me more about the concept of that onboarding process. What are your tips for being able to create that seamless experience? And what does that look like for small businesses having to implement that? Because a lot of the time it comes from that moment of like, “Okay, I’m at my capacity, I need to hire,” and some of that infrastructure is usually built when you’re onboarding.
So, how do we build that ahead of time? What kind of things need to exist in that onboarding process to be able to achieve a successful culture and happy employee that sticks around?
Sara: Yeah, I’m really big in operations. That’s my role. I’m really big on systems and processes. And so, documenting your main systems and processes just as an ongoing project is really important, regardless if you’re hiring or not.
Because really, as a business owner, your goal should be to build a business that’s not reliant on you. And so that’s where documenting systems and processes are going to help you get to that point. You have to put in that work pre-hire. Then, once you do hire someone, I always think over communication. That’s really valuable in an onboarding situation.
So typically, we’ll have an onboarding meeting and then we’re big users of project management tools. We use Monday. com right now, and we basically give the new hire a board with all of their tasks for the first day. Then, we meet with new hires every single day, because I found that if you’re not meeting with people that frequently in the beginning, you’ll just get a million questions in between meetings, and it’s overwhelming.
They’ll meet with their direct manager every single day for the first week or two, we’re literally like, “Here’s your next few tasks. Here’s your next few tasks. Here’s your next few tasks”—and just making sure they have 100% of the information that they need.
With new hires, we’ll back off to meeting three times a week and then eventually one time a week when we feel like they’re ready. And so again, I think the best way you can set up your new hires for success is just getting them all the information they need, not overwhelming them, and supporting them to get up to speed as quickly as possible.
Madeleine: I love that. I’ve been trying out a very robust two week onboarding process. So, I have been coming up with the curriculum more or less. Like these are the things that this person needs to know. Here are the building blocks. And I have since systematized that for all of my roles, which has been really, really fun to be able to do.
But like, what skills does this person need to have? What do they need to know? What are the tools? What are the task examples that they’re going to need to practice? And be able to pack them into those two weeks along with their direct report or me, whoever is still in charge of the training session as a small company.
So, being able to get them up to speed. I like to lead onboarding with the concept of let’s fail fast. Let’s try it. Let’s communicate about it. Let’s learn. And I am here for you. We’ve got your back. This is a safe place for you to be able to go do these things. We know you’re not going to do it all right in these first two weeks.
And that’s okay, but we’re here to learn. We’re here to fail. Let’s get up to speed and be able to practice these things and build those building blocks for you to be successful.
Sara: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And the other piece I would add to that with onboarding because we do a lot of that similar process in the first couple of weeks, but also introducing them to other people on the team is important.
So, we have different departments and we certify marketing consultants. We also work directly with clients. And so, we almost have two businesses in one. They’re almost like two separate teams in a way, but whenever we onboard someone new, let’s say they’re going to join our consulting team.
I’ll still have them talk to people that they’re not going to work with directly in the company, just so they can say, “Hey, what do you do at Duct Tape Marketing? And what does your role look like? And what are your strengths and abilities?” And so, that way they’re getting to know other people in the first couple of weeks and not just their direct manager or people that work directly with. That strengthens the sense of community as well.
Madeleine: I love that. So, when in the onboarding process, I think it is very time consuming. And I think that’s where things can get broken down because it takes so much time. And when business owners are doing it themselves, then that’s where the shoe drops and it just kind of crumbles apart because it is so time consuming.
So as an Operations Officer, what are your recommendations to build systems in place to make that onboarding process go smoothly or ideally maximize the time that’s in existence? And when does time need to be there?
Sara: Yeah. I mean, regardless of what systems and processes you put in place, it’s always going to feel like a massive time commitment. I just think it is what it takes to get someone up to speed effectively. There’s obviously things you can do, and I’ll touch on those to make it less painful. But it’s always going to be a time commitment.
When I’m going through that with a new hire, because like I said, I’ve hired a lot of people on our team over the years, I always just remind myself it’s taking more time right now. But in a month, in two months, and three months, this stuff is going to be off of my plate. And I’m going to have a lot more freedom and time to focus on other things.
So, even if it feels really hard at the moment, I think you just have to keep in mind, other projects might have to be put on hold because this should be a priority, but it is going to free up space for you in the very near future.
If you do it correctly, if you rush through it and don’t do it correctly, all of this stuff is going to continue to stay on your plate. So, I just want to emphasize that in terms of how you can speed it up and make it faster. Again, we’ve been doing more and more with different AI tools. And so, let’s say you’re going to start delegating a new task that you’re doing yourself.
What we love to do is just record the task using something like Loom for your video recording, and then you can put it into ChatGPT and you can tell it to make a step by step process of the task, and then you put all of that into a document to train your new hires on. Because again, if your mind doesn’t work very systems and processes, and sitting down and typing out a checklist is painful for you. Then maybe just record a little video of yourself doing it, talk through it, and then have ChatGPT to help create the checklist to get you across the finish line a lot faster than you would have.
Madeleine: That’s amazing. So talk to me about your recommendations for feedback during the onboarding process. What does that look like for your company and what is your advice in that process? How do you like to give feedback in the onboarding process?
Sara: So as I mentioned in the onboarding, we’re typically meeting every single day.
So, a lot of honest feedback on those calls is what happens. Also, if they’re submitting a project or something for me to review, as I just mentioned for recording processes, I use Loom all the time to communicate with my team as well. And so, let’s say they send me something and ask, “How does this look?”
I’ll just record a Loom video, giving them feedback right then and there, how they could improve or do things differently or whatever the feedback is specifically. As a manager in my position, when I’m managing my direct reports, I try to get feedback back to them as soon as possible.
Also, with the mindset of if I don’t give feedback right away, either I’ll forget things or they’re stuck oftentimes. They’re stuck at a step and can’t get to the next one until I get to them. That means I’m not allowing them to be as productive as possible. It’s a lot of that initially, but ongoing as well.
But once someone’s in an actual role at our company, we do quarterly reviews where they’re reviewing our company. We’re reviewing them and their role essentially. And so we do that on a quarterly basis. And I read a book, Employability by Joe Mole.
It’s about long term employee retention. It highlights the concepts and he has some great charts in there that describe what causes employee happiness. And so we basically took some of the core concepts from his chart and we asked questions based on those core concepts.
They basically give a score from a 1 through 10 on how they are feeling about those things. So like:
- Are you fairly compensated?
- Do you have a boss that coaches you regularly?
Those types of things. They’re giving a score 1 through 10 every quarter, which allows us to see trends over time, but then obviously in that quarterly review process, we’re giving them feedback on how you’re doing on the values that are important.
For example, here’s how you’re doing on the specific traits that are important for this role. Here’s areas for improvement moving forward and some projects to focus on or key things to focus on over this next quarter and beyond the onboarding process. We make it a habit to continue to have these conversations in weekly meetings as it comes up and on a quarterly basis and a review as well.
Madeleine: Very nice. One of my favorite books is Radical Candor, and we just read that one too. It’s very controversial, and I love it! They talk a lot about how, if you are going to create a culture of feedback, if you are going to be able to give your person feedback, you need to be able to first demonstrate that you can receive it. By creating this culture of inviting feedback in, and letting them feel safe to give you feedback and give your company feedback, that creates the psychological safety area. Then, when it’s your turn to give them feedback, they are naturally learning and have performance evaluations and need to be able to get to the place they need to be to perform.
It’s going to go much more smoothly because you’ve been able to build a relationship. You’ve been able to build a solid culture and show that you also respect the concept of feedback and can put it into motion or do something with the words—that their words matter to you to be able to shape the experience that they are existing within.
I think that’s really powerful. Using those performance reviews as a time to do that is a nice, contained, safe space to be able to do something like that.
Sara: Yeah, and I loved when she talked about getting feedback from the team. So, if the question is, “Does my boss coach me regularly?” and they just say, “Yes,” it’s like, “But, do I really? Could I do better?”
You’re not just taking a “yes” as an answer all the time. If they’re not giving you constructive feedback, it’s really your opportunity to ask more questions and dive in deeper, being curious to see if there really is something you can get to with them to receive that feedback.
I thought that was interesting. I also really liked in the book how she talked about ending meetings five to ten minutes early versus going the full hour or full thirty minutes. That way, you can walk away from meetings and give feedback right away while things are top of mind.
The other day, I had a coaching call where one of my team members was leading it, and I was just observing to give her feedback. I was going to walk away and get it back to her later that day, but then I thought, “No, I need to give her feedback right now while it’s fresh in mind for both of us and most relevant.”
So that was another good takeaway from the book: giving feedback directly after something happens, so it’s top of mind for both of you.
Madeleine: Yeah, I went to a conference recently. It was for agency owners, more focused on the client side—how do you invite your clients into a feedback session to ask them what they’re experiencing?
Because they are already thinking those thoughts. With employees, they are talking about those thoughts. If they have something they don’t like in the company, they’re likely sharing it with their peers, sharing it with their family. They are talking about it and giving breath to those things, whether it’s a tiny irritation or a major complaint.
If you can be the space where that conversation happens—if you can invite the complaints and address them right there instead of coming from a place of fear—because I think that happens a lot too: “I know it’s not the best; I don’t really want to ask that question because I don’t want to know the answer.”
I think that’s really hard to overcome, wanting to hear the answer. If you invite that feedback into the conversation—”How are you feeling within the company? What feedback can you give me?”—and give voice to it, then you can do something about it. If you don’t have that conversation, it’s happening with somebody else.
That creates a potential to infiltrate your company. That one complaint that one person has can suddenly become another complaint that the next person has, leading to an opportunity where it can fester and grow in a negative way. If you can just give space for it to exist and be the leader who does the uncomfortable thing, then you could circumvent that.
Sara: Yeah, absolutely. It will help you grow as a leader and help them feel respected as well, so there’s a lot of opportunity in that, nice.
Madeleine: So talk to me about your third building block: creating collaborative moments and a culture where people can work together. How important is that for peer-to-peer relationships, and where does the leader get involved?
Sara: We’ve been remote for about ten years now as a company, and I would argue that building a remote company culture is even a little bit more challenging than in person. When you’re in person, you have a lot of conversations that happen in the office—side conversations that aren’t work-related—where people can connect and bond over different things. When you’re remote, a lot of the conversations we have with our team are work-based because we get in meetings, cover tasks, and then move on.
So you miss a lot of that. That’s been an important piece for us to realize: incorporating more of those side conversations into remote culture. We’ve created a cadence where, on Mondays, everyone meets with their direct manager to set up for success for the week.
On Tuesdays, we have a meeting called “Stand Up,” where our entire company comes together for about thirty minutes. We share wins and learnings because learning is important for us. We don’t address any setbacks in that meeting; we just bring them up and schedule follow-ups.
Another fun thing we do in that meeting is have a new person lead it every single week. So people who don’t typically lead meetings now have the opportunity to do so. It’s a growth opportunity for them as well.
On Wednesdays, we do a random show-and-tell question on Slack. I just schedule them out and ask completely random questions. I think I asked last week, “What was your favorite cereal as a kid, and what is it today?”
It literally creates conversations of people telling about their favorite cereals, and someone else loved that cereal too. They go down this rabbit hole of childhood memories together, and it’s just crazy what a simple question can do.
On Thursdays, we usually try to do shout-outs for wins and stuff like that. On Fridays, we do “Happy Friday,” where there’s an automated post in Slack again for people to share what made their week, big or small, and they always share pictures.
Sara: Now we’re seeing their kids, dogs, and the vacations they went on. If you think about it, these small things happen almost every day in our company, and they’re creating connections on a personal level, not just a work level.
Obviously, we focus on collaboration on projects and communication, but these are other things that help people connect as people, which I think is really important.
Madeleine: Why do you think that’s so important in creating happy environments? I’ve heard a lot of people talk about how every minute is time, focusing on maximizing productivity and making sure people are always on the job—cutting those cooler conversations to get back into what makes the business profitable. What’s your argument against that mindset, and why is this important?
Sara: I would argue that taking a couple of minutes out of the week for these activities—like a thirty-minute meeting and casual conversations on Slack—isn’t a lot of time. But I would argue that this actually causes people to work harder because they’re motivated, connected, aligned with our mission and values, and they really like the people they work with. So, they’re happy.
I’ve also found that when people are happy from a culture standpoint in the company, if we ask them to take on more work or do different things, they’re more willing to dive in and say yes because they want to help out someone else.
That’s been really beneficial. As we talked about before, retention is crucial; they stay around so much longer in our company because of these little things we’re doing. So I think it helps with productivity, willingness to jump in and help, and retention long term. It’s maybe only forty minutes a week, but I think it pays off way more than that in the long term.
Madeleine: I love that. At the end of the day, we have to remind ourselves that we are in the business of people. We function based on the people around us, and if we can bring back our humanity a little bit into the concept of running a business, it gets easy to put that aside and focus on what we’re trying to deliver with quality—just keep going and going—but we need our people.
It’s amazing what happens when your people need you and love to exist in the space you’ve created. Developing solid relationships, having friendships, and ensuring people enjoy waking up and coming to work instead of just clocking in and clocking out is a big shift. Creating a company culture that people enjoy being in is crucial.
Sara: Yeah, and I always tell people one of the things I look for when hiring is that I need them to show they care about their clients. They need to take care of their clients and be proud of the work they do because they’re representing Duct Tape Marketing. If I’m not showing that I care about them, they’re not going to be motivated to care about their clients.
If you’re asking them to care about the quality of their work for your business and to represent your company, I think you have to show that you care and want them to be part of the team. All of this stuff helps get you there.
Madeleine: Okay, so my final question: let’s talk about the other side of things. If company culture is not where it needs to be, what does that look like? What are some warning signs that your culture is becoming toxic and needs to be turned around?
What does that look like when company culture is at that level of toxicity, and how can you turn it around?
Sara: Yeah, I think a number of warning signs are basically the opposite of what we talked about today. For example, if you have a high turnover rate—if people aren’t staying around for a long time, if they aren’t motivated, if it feels like people are just clocking in and out, or if they aren’t willing to help each other out. If someone’s on vacation and others aren’t willing to cover their workload while they’re off, that’s a sign.
So, again, it’s a lot of the opposite of the things we discussed.
In terms of getting back on track, I think you could start with having conversations with your team or the key people you want to stick around: “What are our values? What do they mean to you? How can we make them more of a conversation in our day-to-day business work?”
Just reevaluating is important. We had values a long time ago that meant something to John, our CEO, and me, but not necessarily to the team. So, in a recent team meeting, we basically mapped out our core values as a team to say, “What do we want to represent? Why do we believe that? How are we going to bring this to life?”
If you feel like you’re struggling from a cultural standpoint, doing some strategic planning around your values and bringing your team in for conversation is a great starting point. Once you identify your key values as a leadership team or core team, analyze whether you have the right people in place or if you need to look at hiring different people who align more with the direction your company is trying to go.
Madeleine: Yeah, I love that. Inviting the company into the conversation about values is essential. I have a value alignment meeting every year where we revise our values, and it’s magical to include everyone in that conversation. We also do a monthly value award during our team meetings, where someone wins it for exemplifying one of our values. Then that person is responsible for giving it to another, so they must watch and identify what that person did to exemplify one of our values. That’s been a fun little initiative.
Sara: I might have to borrow that idea!
Madeleine: Yes! Well, is there anything I didn’t ask you that you think our audience could benefit from? Anything else about culture that you want to share?
Sara: I think we covered a lot. I would just say, if it seems overwhelming, start small—take baby steps. I really do think it’s an important piece for all the reasons we discussed today. As a business owner, if you’re not thinking about company culture, follow the steps we outlined: outline your mission, vision, and values; think about hiring; think about onboarding; create small moments throughout the week; and do quarterly feedback surveys with your team. Put some of those pieces in place, and hopefully, you’ll see the positive effects of those efforts.
Madeleine: Thank you so much, Sara! Where can people find you?
Sara: Duct Tape Marketing is our website. I’m on LinkedIn, so look for Sara Nay. We also have a page on our website: DTM.world/growth, where we have a bunch of free resources as well.
Madeleine: Awesome! Thank you so much for joining me. This was an incredibly powerful episode. I’m so excited to have had you and to have these conversations. I appreciate your time!
Sara: Thank you for having me! It was fun.
